Forgive me, for I have Been Foolish

[Travis Butler]

I suspect we're much closer on all of this than the above ping-pong exchange suggests. I do agree that developing a "connection" with one's chosen camera is important, and so its UI/ergonomics are essential. I also appreciate nicely-designed and manufactured cameras - it helps with the ownership experience and also gives some added impetus to go out and use the things!

But I guess where we differ is that I think the BF has too many limitations to justify whatever goodness it has in terms of usability/UI; especially given its price. I do think the S9 represents much better value for money given that it's cheaper and has features/capabilities important to me - like IBIS, flippy screen, wireless, and focus bracketing/stacking. I also quite like the Panasonic UI/menus. They work for me and I don't feel I need some new UI paradigm. Much more importantly, given that such a camera would always be a second camera to something like the S1Rii, it is a positive benefit that the UI would be consistent across them.

But in the end, I'm not going to be buying either a BF or an S9 because they both lack one of my essential red-line features - an EVF.

Yeah, all of that makes sense, and if it'd been stated in those terms I probably wouldn't have argued so hard. ^^;;

What set me off was when you started listing features and implying that meant the S9 was prima facie superior to the bf, and then followed up with "the S9 is demonstrably a more capable camera". I've been literally fighting for decades against claims that features are the only thing that matters, and anything beyond features and specs is meaningless at best, artsy-fartsy smushie weenie stuff at worst. So I can't let claims like that stand.

 

[Pete_W]

I do think the S9 represents much better value for money given that it's cheaper and has features/capabilities important to me - like IBIS, flippy screen, wireless, and focus bracketing/stacking. I also quite like the Panasonic UI/menus. They work for me and I don't feel I need some new UI paradigm. Much more importantly, given that such a camera would always be a second camera to something like the S1Rii, it is a positive benefit that the UI would be consistent across them.

This is why I have the S9. I wanted an every-day camera and it is like mini version of my S5ii including use of the same batteries. If I need an EVF and/or larger lenses then take the S5ii.

What set me off was when you started listing features and implying that meant the S9 was prima facie superior to the bf, and then followed up with "the S9 is demonstrably a more capable camera". I've been literally fighting for decades against claims that features are the only thing that matters, and anything beyond features and specs is meaningless at best, artsy-fartsy smushie weenie stuff at worst. So I can't let claims like that stand.

I totally get that. When I was shooting m4/3 and regularly visiting the DPReview forum, bragging from forum members about camera specifications was common place. I got tired of the posts from Olympus users who insisted that if a camera couldn't shoot some blistering number of frames per second in burst mode and clear the buffer in a couple of seconds then it was useless. Despite the fact that not everyone actually needs that kind of speed.

 

[dirk]

I think it all comes down to individual taste and personal preferences. Lumix S9 and Sigma BF remind me of Android Smartphone vs. Apple iphone.

The Apple iphone (and Apple laptops) have many, many restrictions, so that I refuse to use one. But still, there is a huge Apple fan base and they will buy all iphones, no matter how they limit the way you can use it.

The Sigma BF is going new ways. More like Apple products, not the way how traditional cameras used to be over decades. If the BF price drops to significant lower levels, I am sure that even more people would buy a Sigma BF with only one lens.

But I think the price level is not the biggest problem of the BF.

The biggest problem of the Sigma BF is the lack of a tiny 28mm and/or 40mm pancake lens.

 

[Jayneboo]

I'd be amazed if the BF price dropped given the limited manufacture capability, and Sigma have pretty much maintained the Fp/FpL price from launch, but they will and have shown up on the used market.