Pros and cons switch S5Ii to S1Rii

[RuleOfThirds]

Last I week I almost got a demo S1Rii, but chickened out the last minute because I hadn’t thought it quite through.

pro’s are quite short:
- more detail in 44mp
- more cropping and still have 4K
- better autofocus
- nice and better flippy screen
- nice viewfinder

Cons
- new card type
- new card type reader needed
- more storage needed (how much more?)
- maybe some of the glass is not up to 44mp ?
- battery life?
- processing power needed for raw conversion (think that my M1 will still cut it though)
- high iso noise?

Any pro’s and cons I haven’t thought about? What will I as an amateur actually gain except a lighter wallet..

 

[RBecker]

Despite having a „wanna have“ factor it is always the same question: do you really need it? Can you make better pictures than before? Will anybody notice in difference?
I have a S1R(I) and a S5II and have no need to change (actually). The old S1R is perfect for anything in studio, landscape, architecture. The S5II is for walking around, sports, dance, animals…
So every camaera has a sweet spot and I don‘t think the S1RII will be best for all

 

[pdk42]

I think the main difference is the resolution. If you don't need it, then I think the S5ii is just fine as it is. But here's a more detailed response:

- more detail in 44mp
- more cropping and still have 4K
Yes, these are probably the biggest differences.

- better autofocus
Not sure it's really any better.

- nice and better flippy screen
- nice viewfinder
Both nice to have, but far from essential.


Cons
- new card type
- new card type reader needed
- more storage needed (how much more?)
Why? The S1Rii has an SD card slot too.

- maybe some of the glass is not up to 44mp ?
ALL lenses will perform better on a higher res sensor (at the same output magnification).

- battery life?
I suspect they are as bad as each other.

- processing power needed for raw conversion (think that my M1 will still cut it though)
No issues with my M1 MBP.

- high iso noise?
It's pretty good, but not as good as the S5ii.

Any pro’s and cons I haven’t thought about? What will I as an amateur actually gain except a lighter wallet..
Not a lot really, apart from the resolution. It's helpful for cropping and also gives more detail for some types of shooting (landscapes etc). But most of the time, 24Mp is enough for most people. For me, the biggest factor is simply that at low ISO, the S1Rii will give the best IQ from any Panasonic L-mount camera. That sort of matters for me.

 

[dirk]

It depends on what you want to use the S1Rii for.

Landscape: the more pixel the better
Sports: Like with landscape. The more the better for crops (if fps is fast enough with 44MP) & AF of S1Rii is better

For everything else the S5ii is enough IMHO. I upgraded from S5ii to the S1Rii only for sports photography.

Tilting screen, better EVF etc. are all nice to have. But not worth it for me to upgrade for that alone.

I was looking for meaningful improvements in sport photography. The cropping potential, better AF (for sports) and higher fps were the deciding factors.

CF express cards eat battery by the way. Outside of sports, I prefer to use SD cards for my S1Rii. A lot more convenient, too.

 

[Pete_W]

Cons
- new card type
- new card type reader needed
- more storage needed (how much more?)
Why? The S1Rii has an SD card slot too.

I am guessing that the S1Rii behaves like other Lumix bodies in that it will display a flashing empty card indicator in the LCD and viewfinder if there is no CFE card in the camera?

I would find that a bit irritating.

 

[CharlesH]

It was a no brainer for me. I like more pixels for photos and I was used to and liked 8K video with the Sony A1. I sold the A1 and some lenses so the S1RII was essentially free. I already had an extra CFexpress card. I really like the new features, especially after the latest software update. Dedicated photo and video modes. Shutter closed when changing lenses. Higher speed multi shots. The better viewfinder. The everywhere flip screen. Blue tooth audio sync. False color. etc.

 

[Jan.Wedekind]

Last I week I almost got a demo S1Rii, but chickened out the last minute because I hadn’t thought it quite through.

pro’s are quite short:
- more detail in 44mp
- more cropping and still have 4K
- better autofocus
- nice and better flippy screen
- nice viewfinder

Quite short?! You get double resolution, much better EVF and much better flippy screen. Those are three of the most important components in a camera.

Cons
- new card type
- new card type reader needed

Yes but you do get a much much faster card write and card readout. Those cards are quite affordable per GB too. All in all peanuts vs total investment if you think about it and you get tangible benefits from it.

Also, you can just plug in the camera via USB-C and read out directly.

- more storage needed (how much more?)

That does suck indeed sometimes. RAWs are big. I wish Panasonic had a slightly lossy compressed RAW. In the vast majority of cases I care more about dynamic range than “finest details seen, maybe when squinting juuuust right, at 400% zoom”.

- maybe some of the glass is not up to 44mp ?

Such as? Can’t say that I’ve had or seen any issues.

- battery life?

Plus: you can keep using extra batteries from the S5
You need them, battery life is ok not great

- processing power needed for raw conversion (think that my M1 will still cut it though)

M1 is plenty. Especially for photos. AI Denoising takes longer but I almost never use it with the S1Rii. I happily use it to 6400 and the noise pattern is quite pleasant overall even when I notice it. Videos might be different if you do 8k open gate but I don’t know anything about it

- high iso noise?

Honestly non issue. I don’t see any real practical difference to the S1. I actually slightly prefer the look of the S1Rii at higher ISO (cannot speak for video)

Any pro’s and cons I haven’t thought about? What will I as an amateur actually gain except a lighter wallet..

For me from the S1 it was a no brainer because in that case it included the jump to PDAF autofocus. Also I did not downgrade the EVF (well, a bit but as much as jumping to the S5ii would have been)

You definitely do get a lot of tangible upgrades. But that does not mean you need them.

Maybe ask yourself a few questions:

- do I often wish I could crop in more?
- does the EVF ever bother me?
- does the flippy screen really annoy me because I cannot fold it out?

If the answer is not a strong yes, to at least 2 , you can just happily wait for prices to come down or get a used one in 2-3y. You do get a nice to have premium boost then.

Then again, personally speaking, there is also “want” and not just “need”. I’m the worst at that so rest assured that if you just want it, you also get some actual upgrades with it

 

[RuleOfThirds]

Thank you all. The comments are more or less in line with what I thought.

I do like to take pictures of bird in nature and then to get more detail I have to up the resolution or much heavier glass or both. Thought about getting a m43 as a side kick with the 100-300ii Panasonic (liked that lens a lot back then), but it will be just a 100-300 only cropped in more due a tiny sensor with tiny pixels anyway. So 70-300 + 44mp would be nice.

But that are like 1% of my images. For the other 99% I’m fine with 24mp.

wish there was a 24mp in-camera already downsampled raw option.

For storage… I’m too lazy after culling to throw away the not used pictures. I think I have a lot of space to be reclaimed

My S5ii sensor has dust on it… the S1rIi closes. That could be handy. Although I guess most particles are sucked in while zooming in and out.

Higher resolution can be a difference with glass. If there is a bigger resolution difference between edges and center can make an image on 24mp perfectly fine because the edges still resolve maybe like 25mp.

If you get a higher resolution sensor and the center of lens resolves the full 44mp but the edge only 25 then you can see even after downsampling a difference between center and edges which could not be seen with 24mp.

 

[xaviergut]

Just 2 things:

You can use an external SSD to save still images on the Lumix S1R II, not just for video. I use the Lexar Professional Go Portable SSD 1tb. You dont need an adapter, just plug in directly to the USB-C port. I think a CFExpress 1tb card costs twice as much. But, sometimes I noticed a bit if overheating...

I terms of autofocus, the S1Rii features a Phase Hybrid AF system enhanced with Deep Learning/AI technology for subject recognition (humans, animals, vehicles and Urban sports). It is just a bit faster and more accurate then the S5II.

All other improvements were already mentioned. I think that the price difference is totally justified. It is the best photography camera that Lumix ever made. And one of the best hybrid cameras out there. (The Lumix S1ii is the best mirrorles videocentric camera that Lumix ever made, and one of the best in the market, even better than the Sony FX3)

 

[Quentinquirelino]

...
Higher resolution can be a difference with glass. If there is a bigger resolution difference between edges and center can make an image on 24mp perfectly fine because the edges still resolve maybe like 25mp.

If you get a higher resolution sensor and the center of lens resolves the full 44mp but the edge only 25 then you can see even after downsampling a difference between center and edges which could not be seen with 24mp.

It doesn't work that way. A lens can't resolve a certain resolution.

It's more relatively, like a lens is reducing the resolution let's say by 10 % in the middle of the frame and by 25 % at the edges. Maybe about 20 % across the total frame. If you have a 24 Mpix sensor, you will end up with a picture worth about 19 Mpix resolution. If you have a 44 Mpix sensor, you would end up with about 35 Mpix.

If you have a worse lens, that reduces the resolution more significant, let's say about 50 % in average across the frame, you will end up with 22 Mpix with a 44 Mpix sensor, but only with 12 Mpix with a 24 Mix sensor.

In conclusion, you will get the best results with a high resolution sensor and a high resolving lens. But you also will always get better results with a high resolution sensor and a mediocre lens compared to a lower resolution body and that exact same mediocre lens.

 

[pdk42]

It doesn't work that way. A lens can't resolve a certain resolution.

It's more relatively, like a lens is reducing the resolution let's say by 10 % in the middle of the frame and by 25 % at the edges. Maybe about 20 % across the total frame. If you have a 24 Mpix sensor, you will end up with a picture worth about 19 Mpix resolution. If you have a 44 Mpix sensor, you would end up with about 35 Mpix.

If you have a worse lens, that reduces the resolution more significant, let's say about 50 % in average across the frame, you will end up with 22 Mpix with a 44 Mpix sensor, but only with 12 Mpix with a 24 Mix sensor.

In conclusion, you will get the best results with a high resolution sensor and a high resolving lens. But you also will always get better results with a high resolution sensor and a mediocre lens compared to a lower resolution body and that exact same mediocre lens.

Exactly. All boats rise at high tide and all lenses improve on a higher res sensor.