pdk42
Moderator
Ha, I guess I could have tried that. But I have no interest in the 24-60, except curiosity!You should loan the 24-60 with it
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S1Rii loan this weekend
- Thread starter pdk42
- Start date
You can always buy and return, although unethical if it’s intentional not to keep it anyway.There's a bit of a wait for a free loan on the new 24-60, guess it's popular just now.
pdk42
Moderator
So, I got the S1R2. It's nice that the controls, menus, and settings are very nearly the same as on the older cameras so I had it configured to my taste pretty quickly.
As a first test, I did some typical landscape long exposure shots to see what differences I could find. Here is the scene. The exposure is 60s at f16, ISO 100. I used a 10-stop ND and CPL to allow such a long exposure in daylight.
I deliberately under-exposed it to let me do some shadow pushing. I took shots of the same scene (tripod not moved between shots) with the S1, S1R, and S1Rii. I wanted to shoot them all at 28mm, but I somehow managed to nudge the shots with the S1Rii to 31mm so there is a slight magnification difference. This is annoying but doesn't really affect the outcome of the comparison, as you'll see. All are shot raw and processed in LR using default settings apart from WB (set manually using the dropper on the same grey area) and exposure/shadow tweaking as described in the notes below.
1) S1Rii vs S1R
Firstly, here are side-by-side 100% views in LR of the S1R and S1Rii. S1R is on the left. Both images are pushed +2.25 EV and shadows +100 (yes, it's a torture test):
Neither is really accaptable, but the noise on the S1R is obviously much worse.
Here are same two shots again, but this time with LR's "AI" denoise applied at 20%:
The S1Rii is now really clean, but the S1R is to my taste still unacceptably noisy/mushy.
Now let's try turning on long exposure noise reduction at capture time (LENR, aka dark frame subtraction):
Things are a lot better for sure, but I still think the S1R image shows too much noise. The S1Rii is much cleaner.
Now here are the above LENR shots again, but this time with them both having been de-noised with LR's "AI" denoise applied at 20%:
The S1Rii is clearly still the winner, but I can live with the S1R version now.
2) S1Rii vs S1
Now, here is the S1 vs the S1Rii - no NR, no LENR:
So, the S1 is pretty clean, probably slightly cleaner than the S1Rii, but obviously at a lower resolution. However, there is some colour speckling remaining in both.
Here are the same two shots, but 20% denoise applied in LR:
Now they are both very clean - I'm more than happy with both!
Now let's try again with the S1 vs S1Rii, but this time with LENR selected at shooting time. There is no LR denoise applied.
Both are very clean. Adding denoise is clearly unnecessaary.
3) Conclusions
So, here are my conclusions:
This could perhaps have been predicted, but it's nonetheless nice to have have the evidence to prove it!
As a first test, I did some typical landscape long exposure shots to see what differences I could find. Here is the scene. The exposure is 60s at f16, ISO 100. I used a 10-stop ND and CPL to allow such a long exposure in daylight.
- Panasonic - DC-S1
- LUMIX S 14-28/F4-5.6
- 28.0 mm
- ƒ/16
- 60 sec
- Pattern
- Auto exposure
- 3
- ISO 100
I deliberately under-exposed it to let me do some shadow pushing. I took shots of the same scene (tripod not moved between shots) with the S1, S1R, and S1Rii. I wanted to shoot them all at 28mm, but I somehow managed to nudge the shots with the S1Rii to 31mm so there is a slight magnification difference. This is annoying but doesn't really affect the outcome of the comparison, as you'll see. All are shot raw and processed in LR using default settings apart from WB (set manually using the dropper on the same grey area) and exposure/shadow tweaking as described in the notes below.
1) S1Rii vs S1R
Firstly, here are side-by-side 100% views in LR of the S1R and S1Rii. S1R is on the left. Both images are pushed +2.25 EV and shadows +100 (yes, it's a torture test):
Neither is really accaptable, but the noise on the S1R is obviously much worse.
Here are same two shots again, but this time with LR's "AI" denoise applied at 20%:
The S1Rii is now really clean, but the S1R is to my taste still unacceptably noisy/mushy.
Now let's try turning on long exposure noise reduction at capture time (LENR, aka dark frame subtraction):
Things are a lot better for sure, but I still think the S1R image shows too much noise. The S1Rii is much cleaner.
Now here are the above LENR shots again, but this time with them both having been de-noised with LR's "AI" denoise applied at 20%:
The S1Rii is clearly still the winner, but I can live with the S1R version now.
2) S1Rii vs S1
Now, here is the S1 vs the S1Rii - no NR, no LENR:
So, the S1 is pretty clean, probably slightly cleaner than the S1Rii, but obviously at a lower resolution. However, there is some colour speckling remaining in both.
Here are the same two shots, but 20% denoise applied in LR:
Now they are both very clean - I'm more than happy with both!
Now let's try again with the S1 vs S1Rii, but this time with LENR selected at shooting time. There is no LR denoise applied.
Both are very clean. Adding denoise is clearly unnecessaary.
3) Conclusions
So, here are my conclusions:
| 60s, no LENR, no de-noise | 60s, no LENR, 20% LR denoise | 60s, LENR | 60s, LENR, 20% LR denoise | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| S1R | Unacceptable | Unacceptable | Unacceptable | Acceptable |
| S1 | Almost acceptable | Acceptable | Acceptable | Unnecessary |
| S1Rii | Almost acceptable | Acceptable | Acceptable | Unnecessary |
This could perhaps have been predicted, but it's nonetheless nice to have have the evidence to prove it!
Last edited:
pdk42
Moderator
Based on the above, it's clear that the S1Rii is notable better in shadow noise on long exposures - but on its own this isn't enough to convince me that an upgrade is necessary. I don't do that many long exposures like this; and when I do I can use a combination of LENR and a touch of denoise in LR to give me a workable file.
So, next tests will be shadow pushing of non LE shots... watch this space.
So, next tests will be shadow pushing of non LE shots... watch this space.
pdk42
Moderator
Well, I won't bore you all with photos, but looking at regular, short-exposure shots at base ISO (100) of typical landscape scenes, I really can't see any material difference in IQ between the S1R and the S1Rii. The Rii is consistently about a half a stop brighter for the same exposure (ISO calbration?, LR/ACR differences?, lens differences?) but apart from that, there is really nothing to distinguish between them.
Considering that the sensor inside the S1R is supposed to be one of the best around despite it’s age, being about on par is high praise for the S1RII.