The Case for APS-C (again)

[pdk42]

To me it would make more sense for them (Panasonic) to start transitioning those “entry level” and compact options into the L mount and an APSC sensor would be a better fit.

Well, I guess we're both guessing ( ), but I'll eat my hat if Panasonic enter the APS-C market !

 

[Lsake]

In fact Panasonic have launched a number of new MFT models in the past decade:

- GH7 (June 24)
- G9ii (Sept 23)
- GH6 (Feb 22)
- GH5ii (June 21)
- G100 (June 20)

And there have been lenses too:

- 25-50 f1.7 (July 21)
- 9mm f1.7 (May 22)
- Mark ii versions of the 12-35, 35-100, and the 100-400 (various dates in 22 and 23)

Given how mature the m43 lens range is, this isn't a bad record.

in fairness yes, they have kept updating the GH camera. I was thinking more in terms of a “new” model Like a new GX or GM line. I know a lot of people have talked about wanting that. It seems they just discontinued those lines. Possibly the S9 was meant to be the spiritual successor to the GX9…not sure if that’s how it’s played out. This is kind of where the whole APSC question comes into play for me. To the people who were a bit disappointed that the S9 wasn’t a GX10, would they have been happier if it was an SX9? - a hypothetical APSC S9 with an EVF and mechanical shutter, bundled with a Lumix version of the Leica 18mm f2.8 pancake lens. Could that have converted some number of MFT customers over to L mount?

 

[Markuswelder]

I agree with most of that, but I’m not sure m43 is as dead as you paint it

I'm not saying it's dead. But I don't think it's where most of the new developments are going to be coming from from here on in.

 

[xaviergut]

a hypothetical APSC S9 with an EVF and mechanical shutter, bundled with a Lumix version of the Leica 18mm f2.8 pancake lens. Could that have converted some number of MFT customers over to L mount?

I guess it depends on the price... And I am afraid that combo would cost between 1500 and 2000€.

Anyway, that combo already exists: Sony A6700 + Viltrox 28mm f/4.5. Another option is the TTArtisan 27mm f/2.8 Auto Focus.

I just can imaging Sigma or DJI going aps-c in the L-mount.

What about a S9 with EVF and mechanical shutter with a Lumix 28mm f/2.8 pancake lens?

 

[Markuswelder]

Once again, it won't happen. The only way Panasonic would look at APSC, is if there were major video advantages. I think they had a super 35 sensor under development at one point, that's since gone quiet and disappeared. Photography, not going to happen. You can see in m4/3 that all the real development has gone into video, stills has just benefited a little from that. They want to push stills photographers towards 36x24. Even budget orientated. 18-40mm? 26mm pancake? 20-60mm? 14-28mm? All as cheap or cheaper than their m4/3 equivalents. That's why I jumped, I could see where it's all headed.

 

[Markuswelder]

You can still buy Olympus MFT cameras, for legal reasons they’re not Olympus branded anymore.

No you can't. As much as all the misery guts Olympus fanbois wished Panasonic to fail, it was the other way around. Panasonic has video to lean on. Olympus had "tradition" and a raging fanboi base. Which I dare say has a bit to answer for, in the lack of take-up in general with m4/3.

 

[Pete_W]

Once again, it won't happen. The only way Panasonic would look at APSC, is if there were major video advantages.

I hadn't thought about this before, but maybe a GH8 with an APS-C sensor and L-mount to take advantage of the existing lens range could be quite compelling. It would provide an uplift in resolution and DR over the m4/3 GH7, not be any larger and it's already premium priced which is what Panasonic would want.

Like you, I can't see Pansonic releasing an entry-level APSC model. Cheap cameras don't make much money per unit so they'd have to sell boatloads of them to make any money overall and that's squarely in Canon's territory. I don't think they'd win that war. Panasonic is better off playing to its strenghts.

 

[Markuswelder]

I hadn't thought about this before, but maybe a GH8 with an APS-C sensor and L-mount to take advantage of the existing lens range could be quite compelling. It would provide an uplift in resolution and DR over the m4/3 GH7, not be any larger and it's already premium priced which is what Panasonic would want.

Like you, I can't see Pansonic releasing an entry-level APSC model. Cheap cameras don't make much money per unit so they'd have to sell boatloads of them to make any money overall and that's squarely in Canon's territory. I don't think they'd win that war. Panasonic is better off playing to its strenghts.

The trouble with that (I've been down that road before so speak from experience), is that the focal lengths are all wrong. Great if you're a sports/wildlife shooter -everything gets "longer" but $hit if you want to shoot on the wider side of standard to wide. And like I wrote, I could only ever see it happen for video advantages. Which, incidentally, favors wide over telephoto.
And if they were to develop a range of specific lenses to suit, then it's just a massive overlap with their existing m4/3 range. For what?

 

[Quentinquirelino]

...

I just can imaging Sigma or DJI going aps-c in the L-mount.

...

Probably not even that. Until early last year, sigma released APS-C lenses for the L-Mount, but they have stopped doing so with the 12 mm f1.4 and it seems like they also will not release the 15 mm f1.4 for L-Mount. Maybe they gave up on APS-C lenses for L-Mount and that also indicates they are not planning an APS-C camera in the foreseeable future.

Chinesen companies, like TTartisans or 7Artisans did only release Full frame lenses for L-Mount. If we assume, that Chinese companies in the same branches knows about what doing the others, then we could assume they aren't planning APS-C cameras for L-Mount neither.

 

[xaviergut]

Probably not even that. Until early last year, sigma released APS-C lenses for the L-Mount, but they have stopped doing so with the 12 mm f1.4 and it seems like they also will not release the 15 mm f1.4 for L-Mount. Maybe they gave up on APS-C lenses for L-Mount and that also indicates they are not planning an APS-C camera in the foreseeable future.

Chinesen companies, like TTartisans or 7Artisans did only release Full frame lenses for L-Mount. If we assume, that Chinese companies in the same branches knows about what doing the others, then we could assume they aren't planning APS-C cameras for L-Mount neither.

Yes, I mentioned DJI because they have the line Zenmuse line of professional drones with an APSC sensor that delivers 8k recording. They seem to be the only company that innovates a bit in this world of image technonogy.

 

[xaviergut]

Yes, I mentioned DJI because they have the line Zenmuse line of professional drones with an APSC sensor that delivers 8k recording. They seem to be the only company that innovates a bit in this world of image technonogy.

I meant 6k

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

While I'm not against APS-C at all I'm sceptical over the possibility of producing a camera that's cheaper than FF in L-mount. The S5D can be bought for £699 or €799 and it's a lot of camera for the money even if it doesn't have phase detect AF. Even an APS-C S9 with the cost reductions of no viewfinder or mechanical shutter but having PDAF, I'm not sure if it would be significantly cheaper than the existing S9, and if it's not cheaper then there isn't much point.

 

[pdk42]

While I'm not against APS-C at all I'm sceptical over the possibility of producing a camera that's cheaper than FF in L-mount. The S5D can be bought for £699 or €799 and it's a lot of camera for the money even if it doesn't have phase detect AF. Even an APS-C S9 with the cost reductions of no viewfinder or mechanical shutter but having PDAF, I'm not sure if it would be significantly cheaper than the existing S9, and if it's not cheaper then there isn't much point.

I agree. I just can't see Panasonic getting into APSC. Makes zero sense.