Things I wish Panasonic would add for stills shooters

[pdk42]

Dwelling on the improvements that the S1Rii brings to the party, I've been reflecting that it's really mostly about video. There are a bunch of simple things that Panasonic could offer to improve the life of stills shooters, but there has been very little progress since the S1 was launched. These are some of the things I'd like to see:

- Adding a "LiveTime" feature. This is Bulb mode where the display gives regular peeks of the building image (incl histogram and zebras). It's great not only for knowing that a shot is properly exposed, but also for allowing in-camera dodging & burning (e.g. holding back exposure of the sky).

- Better bracketing options for HDR - today if you want -2, 0, +2 for example you're stuck with shooting five exposures and throwing away the -1 and +1 shots.

- Doing an in-camera HDR that delivers a raw file. Bonus points for some in-camera decision support that examines the DR of the scene and figures out the best set of exposures to make.

- Improved live-view to show the raw file numerical values (a bit like an in-camera rawdigger). Today all we have is the histogram and zebras driven off the JPEG rendering.

- In-camera filters via compositing multiple images (like what OM do with Live ND and Live Grad ND) - and to put the resulting image into a raw file.

- Better focus bracketing/stacking - select a near and a far point and get the camera to work out the best focus increment and number of exposures. Also have the ability to stack in-camera and build a raw file (not the 6K JPEG-only photo mode available in some cameras).

- More variants of hand-held hi res - so a composite technique but where it's not just for hi-res. The obvious use-case is to leave resolution the same but to stack multiple images at high ISO to give lower noise.

- Simple sky tracker using IBIS - as featured on Pentax cameras. It would definitely be useful for astro shooters.

Maybe you can think of more. I somehow doubt we'll ever see any of this though - Panasonic (like everyone else) seems fixated on video and hybrid now.

 

[dirk]

Yeah, this is true. I am afraid that Panasonic will stick to his "focus on videographers" camera-strategy and leaves the field of photographers to Leica and Sigma. That would be bad news. We need more competition to get better products.

This ND, bracketing etc. features of the MFT system are really valuable for photographers. But same there, it was more Olympus, which pushed in that direction than Panasonic.

That is a risky road for Panasonic. Not everyone has the money for Leica gear and Sigma will be always offereng very niche camera-bodies. The L-Mount allienace risks with this, that new customers decide for another system because of the the price and choice for photographers.

OM system with Live ND and Live Grad ND feature plus focus stacking for macro work is very impressive. For sports photography they have very fast fps with mechanical shutter and better IBIS, thanks to the smaller sensor. Plus smaller and lighter telezooms vs. fullframe. These are big USPs for MFT.

 

[xaviergut]

Just two things from my side:

- A longer-lasting battery. DJI released what they call an "Extreme Battery" for action cameras, the same size as the previous ones but with much longer battery life.

- 1TB of internal memory... The Sigma BF already has internal memory (230GB), as does the Hasselblad (1TB), but I hope it becomes standard in cameras in the future.

 

[RuleOfThirds]

- Adding a "LiveTime" feature. This is Bulb mode where the display gives regular peeks of the building image (incl histogram and zebras). It's great not only for knowing that a shot is properly exposed, but also for allowing in-camera dodging & burning (e.g. holding back exposure of the sky).

You mean this feature ?

 

[pdk42]

You mean this feature ?

No, that's Live Composite. I'm talking about Live Time.

Live Comp:
- Takes multiple exposures until you stop it and combines them into 1 image using an additive algorithm - only areas brighter than previous areas are updated.

Live Time:
- Takes ONE exposure that continues until you stop it (just like B mode). The camera will however give you a peek of the image at regular intervals so you can see how it's "developing".

 

[Markuswelder]

The one thing is like to see fixed, is the IBIS causing soft corners at slow shutter speeds when using Ultrawide lenses.
I first noticed it with my m4/3 cameras, so I bought a non stabilised G100 to use my Panasonic Leica 9mm F1.7 and Laowa 10mm F2 with, problem solved. I even see it when using flash, which should rule out camera shake or movement.
I see the same behaviour work my S5. Not sure if it's just a firmware/Software fixable thing though.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

- Better focus bracketing/stacking - select a near and a far point and get the camera to work out the best focus increment and number of exposures. Also have the ability to stack in-camera and build a raw file (not the 6K JPEG-only photo mode available in some cameras).

100% on this.

- More variants of hand-held hi res - so a composite technique but where it's not just for hi-res. The obvious use-case is to leave resolution the same but to stack multiple images at high ISO to give lower noise.

Yes. The Sigma fp (not sure which one; perhaps both) can give ISO down to 10 or something ridiculous like that.

- Simple sky tracker using IBIS - as featured on Pentax cameras. It would definitely be useful for astro shooters.

100%.

Maybe you can think of more. I somehow doubt we'll ever see any of this though - Panasonic (like everyone else) seems fixated on video and hybrid now.

Frankly, the interplay of the S1RII drive modes are ridiculous. Reading the manual about the interplay between SH/H+/H and exposure calculation, focus (estimated or not), black-out, tracking etc. is a headache and a poor experience. I'm OK with 40 fps needing some kind of compromises, but there should be a 10 fps mode that just WORKS - "normal" AF, availability of tracking, full exposure recalc, zero blackout. All at the same time. The Z8 appears to work this way - reading the manual, anyway. It's a much more "photographer centric" approach. Just choose your FPS rate and start shooting, although they do mention that AF may become approximate at higher frame rates. Fine.

20 fps is also badly needed, with pre-burst.

They need to fix the problem that DPR called out, with regard to having to choose between tracking recognized objects vs tracking just plain 'ol things in the scene (i.e., the wedding cake scenario). Again, like the drive mode implementation, the current AF implementation adds too much menu diving. I'm a photographer, not a camera operator, for crying out loud.

To me, the above three items are just necessary to deliver on the promise of the S1RII.

60 seconds as the longest shutter speed is also ridiculous. I brought this up on a LUMIX Live session on YT and got lots of excuses why they don't need to do it, but none of them really added up for me. The last thing I need when shooting astro is one more gadget to set up in the dark, or to forget to charge, or to simply forget.

Speaking of that, the new app doesn't tell you the amount of time the shutter has been open when using blub mode. Even the clunky old app did that. Why take that away?

The pixel-binning feature in the Leica would be great. Assuming it does what they claim, although I don't know for sure about that. I'd be fine if it dropped the resolution to 24 MP or whatever. Again, lower noise for astro = win.

 

[Pete_W]

They need to fix the problem that DPR called out, with regard to having to choose between tracking recognized objects vs tracking just plain 'ol things in the scene (i.e., the wedding cake scenario). Again, like the drive mode implementation, the current AF implementation adds too much menu diving. I'm a photographer, not a camera operator, for crying out loud.

I mentioned this in another thread so just repeating it here, when I asked about the general tracking mode during a Lumix Live webcast, Sean said words to the effect that "you wouldn't use the older tracking method now that there are subject detection modes". I've never bothered with the general tracking mode since trying it out on my previous m4/3 cameras and not really seeing a use for it for my type of photography. Which is why I didn't even know that subject detection could be set in conjunction with tracking on my S5II.

Anyway, I am trying to understand why anyone wants to track a wedding cake! It's not like they move around by themselves so I assume someone must have been carrying it, so why not focus on the person carrying it?

Apologies George, these questions aren't directed at you. It's just a general rant. I haven't read DPR's review of the S1RII because I find the content of that website annoying, mostly the forum where certain posters seem intent on creating trouble but often the articles too which I feel lack context, are half-baked, and are based on the assumption that how a CaNikSony camera works is the only proper way.

I have found subject detection on the S5II to be great. Based on what I've learned from watching Sean on Lumix Live webcasts, I just set the focus area appropriately for my subject and it never misses.

 

[dirk]

The Leica like pixel binning would be by far on the top of my list. Really the most important wish.

Live ND and Live Grad ND would be second.

Better AF for eye tracking for portraits would be third.

Stronger software based background blurr with already existing background blurr similar to what we are used to with smartphones would be interesting too. Portrait mode.

Should be a lot easier than for smartphones, if you have already background blurr with a F2.0 fullframe lens. Just give us a slider to enhance that optical effect artificially with software.

Also enhancing the app in everything which might be needed to improve the sharing of images with others and with social media would be greatly appreciated. Make sharing faster and easier to be on par with smartphone photography. That would be third or fourth on my list. This will get new customers very fast.

Macro focus bracketing/stacking like Olympus would be on my list, too. But not very high. I do not do Macro, but this would attract me to try it out and gets new customers.

 

[dirk]

Interesting that noone wishes for better image quality in standard situations. We are spoiled with that already in 2025.

Even the AF does not need big improvements anymore for photography. Noone asks for it.

And dear Panasonic, please bear in mind that not all people need 6K open gate or 4k 120 fps, but rather want to have smaller bodies, even if that results in worse video performance.

Enlarge your customer base with different cameras. Not always "the same as usual". Think outside of the video box.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

I mentioned this in another thread so just repeating it here, when I asked about the general tracking mode during a Lumix Live webcast, Sean said words to the effect that "you wouldn't use the older tracking method now that there are subject detection modes". I've never bothered with the general tracking mode since trying it out on my previous m4/3 cameras and not really seeing a use for it for my type of photography. Which is why I didn't even know that subject detection could be set in conjunction with tracking on my S5II.

Anyway, I am trying to understand why anyone wants to track a wedding cake! It's not like they move around by themselves so I assume someone must have been carrying it, so why not focus on the person carrying it?

Apologies George, these questions aren't directed at you. It's just a general rant. I haven't read DPR's review of the S1RII because I find the content of that website annoying, mostly the forum where certain posters seem intent on creating trouble but often the articles too which I feel lack context, are half-baked, and are based on the assumption that how a CaNikSony camera works is the only proper way.

I have found subject detection on the S5II to be great. Based on what I've learned from watching Sean on Lumix Live webcasts, I just set the focus area appropriately for my subject and it never misses.

No worries at Pete.

OK, interesting point about the tracking. If Panasonic truly does believe it's obsolete, that would explain why they didn't feel it was important to enable it in H+. Hopefully that is true - I will certainly experiment. If that's the case, then H+ is looking pretty good - normal AF, 10 fps, blackout free, and "tracking" via subject recognition. Cool. Exposure is locked on the first frame, but still, pretty good overall. I'll spend some time in that mode.

As for the wedding cake scenario, as I understand it, it's just a quicker way to do a focus & recompose. In this case, the cake isn't moving, but let's say I want a shot with the cake in focus but at the left edge of the frame, while the rest of the frame is filled with the dance floor (and dancers OOF). You can of course do this using the joystick: you would compose the shot with the cake at the left edge, and then use the joystick to move the focus point over the cake, then take your shot. But, if you are in AFC, you can just grab the cake in the middle of the frame, and recompose to get the shot you want while the focus stays locked on the cake. Faster & easier than moving the reticle around with the joystick. More dynamic too - easier to try a few different comps. You can do this with the S1RII, of course, but you have to turn off subject matter detection. So, a menu dive is required, which is something you'd rather not do in a fast-paced environment. At least, I think I have that right.

I know what you mean about DPR. There are lots of good reasons to avoid it. They are criticising the S1RII fairly strongly due to AF issues, some of which I have seen. But then again, I probably don't know the camera good enough yet. And yes, if it requires different technique than they existing standard-bearers, then perhaps it's been misjudged. I guess we need to sort it out.

BTW, I really love the S1RII overall. I think Panasonic made some great choices, and I've rarely touched my S1R/S1/S5 bodies since I've had it. The sensor is fantastic. As is the body. And the AF, despite my observations above, is FAR better than the older DfD bodies (but then all you S5II shooters know that). It really is a "dot it all" stills camera, and I am very satisfied to own & shoot with it. The bigger bodies do handle larger lenses a little better, but then that's what the grip is for. And, I'm looking forward to getting into video more. That 32-bit float audio should be awesome for recording a rainy thunderstorm.

 

[Markuswelder]

I've never bothered with the general tracking mode since trying it out on my previous m4/3 cameras and not really seeing a use for it for my type of photography.

I actually found it pretty useful with my m4/3 cameras, it worked slightly differently and I think it was better. I used it when shooting animals with their owners, and didn't want the AF to jump off onto the owner, or some other random thing.
It took me quite a while to trust subject detect on my S5, like you wrote it works really really well I've found. Better than tracking, which won't actually lock in single shot focus.

 

[Pete_W]

No worries at Pete.

OK, interesting point about the tracking. If Panasonic truly does believe it's obsolete, that would explain why they didn't feel it was important to enable it in H+. Hopefully that is true - I will certainly experiment. If that's the case, then H+ is looking pretty good - normal AF, 10 fps, blackout free, and "tracking" via subject recognition. Cool. Exposure is locked on the first frame, but still, pretty good overall. I'll spend some time in that mode.

As for the wedding cake scenario, as I understand it, it's just a quicker way to do a focus & recompose. In this case, the cake isn't moving, but let's say I want a shot with the cake in focus but at the left edge of the frame, while the rest of the frame is filled with the dance floor (and dancers OOF). You can of course do this using the joystick: you would compose the shot with the cake at the left edge, and then use the joystick to move the focus point over the cake, then take your shot. But, if you are in AFC, you can just grab the cake in the middle of the frame, and recompose to get the shot you want while the focus stays locked on the cake. Faster & easier than moving the reticle around with the joystick. More dynamic too - easier to try a few different comps. You can do this with the S1RII, of course, but you have to turn off subject matter detection. So, a menu dive is required, which is something you'd rather not do in a fast-paced environment. At least, I think I have that right.

Thanks George, that makes sense. I used to do a lot of focus-recompose shooting with my m4/3 gear in AF-S mode. I can see how being in AF-C would make that impossible.

I know what you mean about DPR. There are lots of good reasons to avoid it. They are criticising the S1RII fairly strongly due to AF issues, some of which I have seen. But then again, I probably don't know the camera good enough yet. And yes, if it requires different technique than they existing standard-bearers, then perhaps it's been misjudged. I guess we need to sort it out.

Yes, some forum posters at DPR seem utterly obsessed with camera specifications and almost argue to the death that a camera is a dud because of some perceived deficiency in a narrow range of specs compared with a rival brand. I saw a lot of this in the m4/3 forum where Panasonic gear was regularly roundly criticised by Olympus owners. It sucks the joy out of camera ownership. Thankfully this seemed to happen less in the L-mount forum although before I quit about a year ago there were some increasingly negative posts appearing, e.g. about the S9.

BTW, I really love the S1RII overall. I think Panasonic made some great choices, and I've rarely touched my S1R/S1/S5 bodies since I've had it. The sensor is fantastic. As is the body. And the AF, despite my observations above, is FAR better than the older DfD bodies (but then all you S5II shooters know that). It really is a "dot it all" stills camera, and I am very satisfied to own & shoot with it. The bigger bodies do handle larger lenses a little better, but then that's what the grip is for. And, I'm looking forward to getting into video more. That 32-bit float audio should be awesome for recording a rainy thunderstorm.

That's great to hear! I am really pleased that the S1RII has been a good addition for you. I am sure you will have an absolute blast of a time with it. Based on my experience with the S5II and the awesome firmware updates they released I have no doubt there will be more good things in store for S1RII owners in the months to come.

 

[Pete_W]

I actually found it pretty useful with my m4/3 cameras, it worked slightly differently and I think it was better. I used it when shooting animals with their owners, and didn't want the AF to jump off onto the owner, or some other random thing.
It took me quite a while to trust subject detect on my S5, like you wrote it works really really well I've found. Better than tracking, which won't actually lock in single shot focus.

Yes, the tracking in the S5 range is great. I am loving the train detect mode on the S5II. It's awesome.

 

[pdk42]

Yes, the tracking in the S5 range is great. I am loving the train detect mode on the S5II. It's awesome.

I think they built that just for you Pete !!

 

[pdk42]

I guess we’re a pretty minority interest group, but it’s interesting that this topic of photography-targeted features is actually drawing a lot of comments. I wonder if anyone at Panasonic has a similar agenda? I suspect not, but I don’t think Panasonic are unusual. OM are about the only company out there who seem to care about pure photographers (probably because their video is so bad!).

 

[dirk]

OM are about the only company out there who seem to care about pure photographers (probably because their video is so bad!).

Leica and Sigma too. Without Sigma, there would be no affordable lenses with aperture ring anymore and no Sigma BF for the foolish photographers

 

[pdk42]

I'll add another one...

- Ability to record the chosen aperture in the EXIF when using a fully manual lens. Ideally assignable to the same dial used for f-stop selection with an auto lens.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

Here’s my current ranked list, after using FW 1.3:

1. Assuming it is even possible, another step forward in AFC. Possibly even eclipse Nikon and Sony? To be fair, it’s early days after the 1.3 FW and maybe we will find it’s already happened. However, I do still think that at the very least, improvements in the initial acquisition of the target are needed. But it would be amazing to see a headline that suggests Panasonic is now the one to beat for AFC. I do understand, however, that some Sony bodies have AI chips, and that will probably be difficult to overcome. But otherwise, I can dream, right?
2. Currently when setting up “high speed” AFC, you have to choose between H and H+, with H+ being a little faster. However, with H+, you get “Normal” AF while the exposure is locked in the first frame. On the other hand, H uses “Estimated” AF, but exposure is adjusted with each frame. If possible, it would be nice if one of those modes gave both “Normal” AF and frame-by-frame exposure adjustments. I’m not sure if this can be done at 9 or 10 fps with the current hardware, however. But it sure would simplify setup and “just make it work."
3. Another “just make it work” request: I really appreciate that Panasonic does not bake any single-pixel NR into the raw files - this gives those of us with PP software that has single-pixel NR capabilities precise control over the image. I also appreciate the presence of the LENR for people who want an excellent solution and don’t mind the time required to do the LENR. However, Adobe LR does not offer a specific single-pixel NR tool, so you have to rely on AI, which can be kind of cumbersome. Sony (and I think Nikon) do bake in a certain amount of SPNR, however, and it seems every few months somebody gets all upset on DPR about how crappy Panasonic sensors are relative to the competition because their long exposures come into LR with way more hot pixels than their friends Sony or Nikon images have. I do my best to explain the situation, but if Panasonic could add an “Approximate” flag to the LENR menu that does something similar to Sony (as an option to the full-monty LENR that we have now) I feel like this would help acceptance of the S1II bodies in the market. Of course, you’d want to avoid the Sony “star eater” scandal, so I’m sure the algorithm development would be non-trivial, but I suppose if it did eat a star or three then since it can be disabled, perhaps it’s not such a big deal. I.e., it’s an option for folks who want to blur clouds etc but not for astro.
4. Some kind of computational ND filter feature, like OM Systems bodies have.
5. An “astro tracker” feature that uses sensor movement to compensate for the relative motion of stars, similar to what Pentax bodies have. This would allow us to leave the trackers at home, or at least only use them when we use long lenses or want long exposures for top-tier IQ.
6. Shutter speeds longer than 60 seconds. Even just having 120 and 240 second options added would be huge.

 

[William Turner]

- Simple sky tracker using IBIS - as featured on Pentax cameras. It would definitely be useful for astro shooters.

I had a Pentax camera and this was absolutely amazing. Utilized a GPS module that fit on the hotshoe that worked with the IBIS of the camera to operate as a barn door mount. Worked so amazingly well.

Panasonic Lumix could call it the DMW-GPS1