Lumix 28-200

[dirk]

It seems that if you really want a very/light compact travel zoom, an "all-in-one-solution" as small/as light as possible, there is no alternative out there.

@Richard Wong demonstrated that in his video very good. No matter which zoom alternative you choose, it is always a compromise and you have to choose depending on your preferences with the focal range. 28-200 alone or the 14-28 plus 20-60 or 20-60 plus 70-300. And if you consider Sigma zooms too, there is even more choice and combinations possible for L-Mount users.

I think the 28-200 was a smart move from Panasonic. This will bring more customers in, who do not want to switch lenses.

But hold that thought...

If I would be Panasonic, I would bring out a new camera body that fits to that lens and target group. A cheap and small Lumix body. No great video features. Keep it simple and cheap. Offer it as a kit with the 28-200 as the kit lens for a very aggressive price to gain market share.

 

[pdk42]

It looks like a really innovative and well executed lens from Panasonic. I'm extremely impressed by its performance (based on Richard's review) and amazed by its size and weight. But I'm still not 100% sure I'll buy it - mainly because it's only 28mm at the wide end. My normal two lens solution is the 14-28 plus 24-105. The 24-105 gets the most use and I use it at 24mm a lot. My concern is that if I swapped the 24-105 for the 28-200, I'd certainly get a better range with two lenses than my present kit, but I suspect I'll end up doing a lot of lens swapping - that 24-35 range is a big part of where I tend to shoot.

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

It's nice that it's so small but 28mm is not wide enough in 2024 and the Canon-esque max aperture of f/7.1 at the long end is disappointing.

This lens should have been a 24-200mm f/3.5-5.6 even if that made it bigger.

 

[dirk]

It's nice that it's so small but 28mm is not wide enough in 2024 and the Canon-esque max aperture of f/7.1 at the long end is disappointing.

This lens should have been a 24-200mm f/3.5-5.6 even if that made it bigger.

But then it would have been like all the other travel zooms.

There is still the alternative 20-60 zoom out there, if you need wider.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

It's nice that it's so small but 28mm is not wide enough in 2024 and the Canon-esque max aperture of f/7.1 at the long end is disappointing.

This lens should have been a 24-200mm f/3.5-5.6 even if that made it bigger.

I'm a little on the fence about that. I think the smaller size is an equal legit reason for buying that lens compared to 2/3 stops faster and 24mm instead of 28mm in the wide.

Personally I would put an additional prime in my bag anyway. And with such a tiny lens I also would find some space for the 20-60 (or the 14-28 if I would have it).

Hopefully Sigma will release an 24-200 f3.5-5.6 any time soon and Samyang finally will release the 35-150 f2-2.8.

 

[Oldwino]

One thing to consider, and I think @RichardWong s video touched on this, is that lens design is getting really good with regard to how smooth the out of focus looks, and how quickly the focus falls off. It seems that f2 is the new f1.4. That was certainly a design consideration for the Leica SL Apo-summicrons. It appears to be the case with this lens too.

 

[Arkan]

Interesting lens. I just bought the 70-300mm because I have a lack of range when I go traveling overseas, in the countryside parts, to complete the range of the 20-60.
If that lens was released a few weeks ago, I might have gone for it to replace the 20-60 and get my bag lighter for my next trip. With a prime lens for street photo with portraits, I think it's a good combo for me. The size and weight are very appealing. f/7.1 at 200mm, and starting at 28mm is less appealing to be honest (I really appreciate the 20mm). Also, nice price. With future sales and cashback operations from Panasonic, it will be a good value for money.

Hopefully Sigma will release an 24-200 f3.5-5.6 any time soon.

Oh yes, please (but I doubt they will match the size and weight).

 

[Pete_W]

I already have 14-28, 20-60, 24-105 and 70-300 along with a few primes. But I can still see myself getting this lens for casual walkaround shooting. The reason being that if want to go out light with just one lens, the 14-28 and 20-60 can be a bit limiting, and while the 24-105 is a great focal range, it's big and heavy. This 28-200 would be the perfect one lens option for walking around, which I currently do with a M4/3 camera.

 

[dirk]

and while the 24-105 is a great focal range, it's big and heavy.

This is the only reason why I did not buy the 24-105 zoom. Weight and size.

If I want to have the best image quality, there is no way around a fixed focal length.

A lightweight and compact zoom with "enough" range plus 1 FFL would be an ideal combination.

"Enough" range means for everybody something different. Some need "only" 28mm as the starting point, others 24mm or even 20mm. Some prefer a longer reach and are willing to sacrifice for that either a few mm in the wideangle or some 100g in weight and size. It all depends on your personal needs.

More zoom will come with different compromises. But it is good that Panasonic tried something new. That keeps the system fresh and appealing for new potential customers.

 

[Nevyn72]

I'm thinking about selling my 24-105 f4, and buying this lens. I also have some of the primes (35, 50,85 f1.8) and the 18mm f1.8 is also on the shopping list.
I think my primelist is than complete (don't need the 24mm or the 100mm for now), but also for travel I would take this lens, and for wide angle the 18mm with me during the day (some landscape & indoor).

In the evening I would then take 1 or 2 of the primes with me to cover the low light. I do mostly video and this would than be very compelling.
I don't need <18mm for my type of video, so I would prefer the prime over the 14-28 because of the lowlight performance.

 

[pdk42]

I already have 14-28, 20-60, 24-105 and 70-300 along with a few primes. But I can still see myself getting this lens for casual walkaround shooting. The reason being that if want to go out light with just one lens, the 14-28 and 20-60 can be a bit limiting, and while the 24-105 is a great focal range, it's big and heavy. This 28-200 would be the perfect one lens option for walking around, which I currently do with a M4/3 camera.

I have exactly the same zoom lenses as you Pete. But if I did get the 28-200 and sold one of the others, it would be the 79-300. I can’t remember the last time I used it. The 24-105 I really love - it’s definitely my most used lens.

 

[Nomad Nate]

I'm late to the party, have any of the reviewers done a side by side with the 24-105? I've been too busy on kid duty to check them all out

 

[Pete_W]

I'm late to the party, have any of the reviewers done a side by side with the 24-105? I've been too busy on kid duty to check them all out

I haven't seen one yet, but I am sure there will be a few in due course.

 

[Pete_W]

I have exactly the same zoom lenses as you Pete. But if I did get the 28-200 and sold one of the others, it would be the 79-300. I can’t remember the last time I used it. The 24-105 I really love - it’s definitely my most used lens.

Sounds like a good move Paul.

I love my 70-300 and use it a lot. If I do get the 28-200, I will probably just keep everything else!

I wonder if Panasonic will make the 28-200 their new kit lens instead of the 20-60? It would make sense to have this as the default lens with the S5II.

 

[CharlesH]

When I first got the S1 the lens choice was really limited. The 24-105 was the "kit lens" back then, and after that Panasonic slowly released new lenses. Now days it is almost like there are too many L-Mount choices. This conversation about what to keep and what to buy after this release of the 28-200 would not have been thinkable early on. Thank you Panasonic. Thank you Sigma.

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

Having thought about this a bit more, I can see the case for a compact and slow 28-200mm and also a larger, faster, more expensive 24-200. Going back to my previous system, Pentax have an 18-135mm and also a higher quality 16-85mm and it works well in that system that users can choose based on cost, range or the image quality they need. The problem is that I can't see a 24-200 coming out any time soon, and probably never from Panasonic. Super-zooms are not Sigma's specialty any more but they've done them in the past and would maybe consider one in the future though I've seen no indication that it's a priority.

 

[dirk]

I think it is very difficult to "predict" what Sigma will offer in the future. As far as I know, they do not have an official roadmap. Sigma is big enough to release 6-10 different lenses per year. Since they offer all L-Mount lenses also for E-mount, they have economies of scale, lower R&D costs per lens and less risk than others with new lenses.

I am sure that Sigma has a logical agenda. First the lenses that are absolutely needed, also in comparison with offerings of the other partners, and the more the most important gaps have been closed, they can start to "risk" to experiment and/or also offer super zooms for less demanding situations.

As of today (02/2024) we have already a huge lens choice for L-Mount. There is almost no hole left (except 28mm FF or small/light 70-200/F4 or small/light 70-300 F5.6+). I do not think that Sigma will stop now to invent new lenses, just because there is enough choice available already for 90% of the existing users.

Even Samyang joined the alliance now and thanks to this, more unusual lenses can be offered for the L-Mount. Therefore I could imagine, that more similar zooms with a wide range will be announced over the next 12-18 months, if there is enough demand for it. I think Panasonic will not offer even cheaper zooms than the 20-60 and 28-200 for Kit offers.

Another point we have to think about: For "cheaper" zooms like a 28-200 or 24-200, 28-300 etc, a system needs also affordable bodies. I do not think that someone enters the L-Mount system with a S5II or S1R for 1.700 USD or more plus the price of a 28-200mm zoom. If you want to attract new users for the L-Mount, users who want as their first lens a 28-200mm zoom, you need a different/cheaper body to pair it with.

Maybe I am wrong and the 28-200 is meant only for existing users. But If I am right, we can expect a real entry level body in 2024/2025. Something that costs as a kit (body plus i.e. a 28-200 zoom) around 1.500 USD or less in total as a promotion. The L-Mount needs an answer to i.e. a Nikon Z5. This is how your gain market share. Maybe they wait until a cheaper body is available and then announce new zooms in that range for that target group?

 

[pdk42]

I think it is very difficult to "predict" what Sigma will offer in the future. As far as I know, they do not have an official roadmap. Sigma is big enough to release 6-10 different lenses per year. Since they offer all L-Mount lenses also for E-mount, they have economies of scale, lower R&D costs per lens and less risk than others with new lenses.

I am sure that Sigma has a logical agenda. First the lenses that are absolutely needed, also in comparison with offerings of the other partners, and the more the most important gaps have been closed, they can start to "risk" to experiment and/or also offer super zooms for less demanding situations.

As of today (02/2024) we have already a huge lens choice for L-Mount. There is almost no hole left (except 28mm FF or small/light 70-200/F4 or small/light 70-300 F5.6+). I do not think that Sigma will stop now to invent new lenses, just because there is enough choice available already for 90% of the existing users.

Even Samyang joined the alliance now and thanks to this, more unusual lenses can be offered for the L-Mount. Therefore I could imagine, that more similar zooms with a wide range will be announced over the next 12-18 months, if there is enough demand for it. I think Panasonic will not offer even cheaper zooms than the 20-60 and 28-200 for Kit offers.

Another point we have to think about: For "cheaper" zooms like a 28-200 or 24-200, 28-300 etc, a system needs also affordable bodies. I do not think that someone enters the L-Mount system with a S5II or S1R for 1.700 USD or more plus the price of a 28-200mm zoom. If you want to attract new users for the L-Mount, users who want as their first lens a 28-200mm zoom, you need a different/cheaper body to pair it with.

Maybe I am wrong and the 28-200 is meant only for existing users. But If I am right, we can expect a real entry level body in 2024/2025. Something that costs as a kit (body plus i.e. a 28-200 zoom) around 1.500 USD or less in total as a promotion. The L-Mount needs an answer to i.e. a Nikon Z5. This is how your gain market share. Maybe they wait until a cheaper body is available and then announce new zooms in that range for that target group?

Given the aggressive pricing on the S5ii, I think Panasonic’s strategy is to treat that as the entry model body. The obvious kit lens option is either the 20-60 or the 28-200. I think the 28-200 will drop to around the $600 level within the year and will probably come bundled with the S5ii at around $1999 by Christmas.

Bottom line for me is that I think the current 28-200 pricing is too high. I know it’s small and all, but there are plenty of legacy film-era 28-200 designs that are not too dissimilar, most of which can be picked up for coppers now (but probably they’ll have terrible IQ so I’m not suggesting this is a remotely comparable option!!).

 

[dirk]

and will probably come bundled with the S5ii at around $1999 by Christmas.

I think 2.000$ is too high to be competitive with a Nikon Z5 kit et alii

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

I don't think it's at all true to say there are almost no gaps in the L-mount lens line-up. Just off the top of my head:

28mm, 40mm, 135mm and 200mm primes
Long telephoto primes
Compact lenses - there isn't a single one I would class as compact
Cheaper lenses to bring in new people (hopefully on the way from Samyang)
A super-zoom that starts at 24mm
f/4 zooms (24-70mm, 70-200mm...) from Sigma which would be much cheaper than Panasonic versions

As for cheaper. entry-level bodies, I think the fP is the only one and it's cheaper than a lot of APS-C models for other mounts. It's far from ideal but it's there. I think Panasonic could produce a cheaper FF model though, essentially a cut-down S5, which would be about the same price as the fP but less limited.

I agree that the 28-200mm is over-priced, but then I regard almost all Panasonic's S lenses as over-priced compared to the competition, so it's not a surprise.